Law school provides many young attorneys with the critical thinking and analysis skills necessary to be a successful lawyer in today’s legal marketplace. In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, hosts Chris Morgan and Sandy Gallant-Jones speak with Continuing Education of the Bar (CEB) Executive Director Kelly Lake about the disruptive effects of legal technology and why continued learning and development is essential for legal professionals.
Prior to joining CEB, Ms. Lake held key positions with Thomson Reuters in the UK and Asia, working to deliver a variety of legal workflow solutions and practice tools as well as with Westlaw in the UK, China, and India.
The process of trying criminal cases can be complex. In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, hosts Chris Morgan and Sandy Gallant-Jones speak with Washington state trial attorney Mark Vovos about his journey toward trying death penalty cases and the difficulties and challenges these cases can present.
Mark Vovos has practiced law in the State of Washington for 44 years and his practice focuses on complex federal litigation in all aspects of criminal defense.
Many young lawyers turn to the Law Student Division of the ABA for invaluable resources, benefits, and leadership opportunities. However, it can be challenging for students who are interested in a deeper level of engagement in the ABA to continue their involvement as they enter the legal market. In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, which originally aired on March 24th 2016, host Fabiani Duarte chats with guest Bryan Rogers about the Young Lawyers Division and the Emerging Leaders Program that is helping law graduates seek significant leadership roles within the ABA.
Bryan Rogers is an associate attorney with the law firm Swanson, Martin & Bell, LLP and has held many positions within the ABA Law Student Division and the ABA Young Lawyers Division.
In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, host Sandy Gallant-Jones speaks with McDermott Will & Emery partner Andrea Kramer about her new book, Breaking Through Bias: Communication Techniques for Women to Succeed at Work, and gender equality in the workplace. Andrea recalls the life experiences and occupational observations that motivated her and her husband to write their new book and expresses how important it is that women find ways to succeed in the workplace. She provides her tips to help women purposefully counter bias in the office and breaks down the four attributes, like cultivating the right attitude for success and maintaining high self awareness, for attuned gender communication. Andrea gives examples of how men in the workplace can also improve their communication with their female colleagues and closes the interview with her most important advice for women who have recently graduated from law school as they start their careers.
Andrea S. Kramer is a partner in the international law firm of McDermott Will & Emery LLP where she heads the firm’s Financial Products, Trading and Derivatives Group. She is a founding member of the firm’s Diversity Committee and co-chair of the Gender Diversity Subcommittee. She previously served on both the firm’s Management and Compensation Committees. Andrea co-founded (2005) and now serves as chair of the Board of the Women’s Leadership and Mentoring Alliance (WLMA), a 501(c)(3) corporation that brings professional women together to mentor and support leadership opportunities for women of all stages of their careers.
In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, host Sandy Gallant-Jones talks with Above the Law Editor Joe Patrice, CuroLegal CEO Chad Burton, LegalZoom General Counsel Chas Rampenthal, Clio Lawyer in Residence Joshua Lenon, and Legal Talk Network Executive Producer Laurence Colletti about alternative careers in law. Joe opens the interview by advising law students to experiment if they are unsure as to what they should do with their practices. Chad reminds young lawyers that they can create their own career alternatives, there are many different ways of getting into existing fields outside of the law, and that graduates don’t have to be lawyers. Chas cautions law students to remember that their peers are going to be the captains of industry and that it is beneficial to treat everyone respectfully, use this time to make connections, and understand that the law is evolving and that you must evolve with it. Josh shares that most lawyers in their first jobs leave outside of five years and that young attorneys should be okay with moving on if their interests change or if they are unhappy with where they are occupationally. Laurence talks about a few of his struggles during law school and encourages students to find ways to be successful in their studies that works well for them. The group discusses their thoughts on how technology and the law will commingle in the future, how law schools can better accommodate and prepare students for emergent technology, and closes the interview with thoughts on how we can make law school a better learning experience for students.
Joe Patrice is an editor at Above the Law. For over a decade, he practiced as a litigator at both Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton and Lankler Siffert & Wohl, representing a variety of individuals, institutions, and foreign sovereigns in criminal and civil matters. Then Joe left private practice to concentrate on making snide remarks about other lawyers which is at least as fulfilling as motion practice.
Chad Burton is the founder of Burton Law, one of the leading virtual law firm structures. Formerly in a big law firm, he now represents technology-oriented companies from startups to multinational corporations. Additionally, he started CuroLegal, an outsourced practice management company for lawyers.
Chas Rampenthal has served as general counsel for LegalZoom since 2003 and as corporate secretary since 2007. Before joining LegalZoom, Chas was a partner at Belanger and Rampenthal, LLC and an associate at Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP and Thelen Reid & Priest LLP. He also served as an officer and aviator in the United States Navy. Chas received his B.S. in economics and math studies from Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville and a J.D. from the University of Southern California.
Joshua Lenon is the lawyer in residence at Clio, an intuitive cloud-based legal practice management solution. He can be reached at firstname.lastname@example.org. An attorney admitted to the New York Bar, Joshua brings legal scholarship to the conversations happening both within Clio and with its customers.
Laurence Colletti serves as the executive producer at Legal Talk Network where he combines his passion for web-based media with his experience as a lawyer. Previously, he was a solo practitioner and consultant in general business and commercial real estate.
In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, host Sandy Gallant-Jones speaks with General Jack Rives, executive director of the American Bar Association about his career as a military lawyer, his transition to civilian life, and his current role within the ABA. Jack reminisces about his passion for the legal profession from an early age, his undergraduate time at The University of Georgia on a Reserve Officers Training Corps Scholarship, and shares that he originally only planned to spend four years in the Air Force. After an educational delay that allowed him to attend law school, he entered the military as a judge advocate general (JAG). Jack provides a breakdown of the various occupational and travel opportunities that changed his initial plans and led to a 33 year long career as a military lawyer. He provides insight into the personal values, like integrity, strong work ethic, and service that aided him in becoming the first military lawyer to ever achieve the rank of three star general and emphasizes how these values are necessary for the success of every attorney. Jack takes time to commend veterans who are pursuing law degrees, discusses ways that law schools can better support these particular students, and talks about his journey transitioning from the military to civilian practice and his work with the ABA. He closes the interview with tips for law students on how to manage the stress and demand of their studies and the many benefits that joining The American Bar Association can have on their flourishing careers.
General Jack Rives is originally from Rockmart, Georgia. Upon graduating from the University of Georgia School of Law, he began a 33-year career in the United States Air Force as a judge advocate general (JAG) where he became the first military attorney to attain the three-star rank of lieutenant general. During his time in service, General Rives led 2,600 lawyers and was awarded both the Distinguished Service Medal with oak leaf cluster and Defense Superior Service Medal.
In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, hosts Sandy Gallant-Jones and Kareem Aref chat with Brooks Brothers District Manager Mic Clark about courtroom appropriate fashion and wardrobe elements that every lawyer should have. Mic acknowledges that most law students are operating on a budget, but emphasizes that the goal is to use simple affordable pieces to build a wardrobe that gives you a functional week's worth of clothes. He states that most business is done primarily in blue and gray attire and encourages men to build on solid or patterned variants of those colors. By focusing on a classical, professional aesthetic consisting of quality basic pieces, you are investing in apparel that will last you for a very long time. Mic advises ladies to focus on blues, grays, and blacks for their basic pieces and discusses the importance of hem length. He reminds law students that although you are wearing classic pieces, and the guidelines for men and women are different, It’s important to have an element of your personal style present within your look and to have fun with the wardrobe building process. Mic shares that most people over-launder their clothing and closes the interview with his tips for maintaining your wardrobe long term.
Mic Clark is the Brooks Brothers district manager for the San Francisco Bay area.
In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, host Kareem Aref speaks with Stark & D’Ambrosio, LLP partner Anna Romanskaya about her journey through law school and her struggles finding work as a legal practitioner. Anna shares that she never aspired to become a lawyer, had no family members that were attorneys, and that she perceived the profession as stuffy and intimidating. Her passion for crisis intervention and victim advocacy led her away from the undergraduate psychology focus she was pursuing at the University of California, Santa Barbara and towards a double major in law and society and political science. Anna recalls the lack of direction she felt in school and recounts how those feelings informed her decision to attend law school in order to gain the practical skills she would need to work in advocacy. She discusses the difficulties of being a 1L, finding herself on academic probation, and the internships and student organization participation that ultimately gave her the sense of connection and occupational purpose that helped her graduate from law school. Anna reflects on the sadness she felt upon losing her job during the recent economic downturn, the triumph of passing the bar exam, and the hard work required to secure her practice in family law. Before closing the interview she also provides tips on how to push through these challenges for law students experiencing similar hardships.
Anna Romanskaya is a partner with Stark & D’Ambrosio, LLP and manages the firm’s family law division. She represents clients in all aspects of family law, including pre and post marital agreements, dissolution, child custody, child and spousal support, property division and post judgment issues. Anna has been recognized as a Rising Star by Super Lawyers in 2015 and 2016, as well as a Best of the Bar in 2015 and 2016 by the San Diego Business Journal. She is the Chair of the Young Lawyers Division of the American Bar Association (ABA) and is a graduate from the University of California, Santa Barbara where she double-majored in political science and law and society. She received her Juris Doctorate from Thomas Jefferson School of Law and is admitted to the State Bar of California and the U.S. District Court, Southern District of California.
Even though research shows that African American males are no more likely to use or sell drugs than Caucasian males, in at least 15 states they are admitted to prison on drug charges at rates 20 to 57 times higher. Some law students are drawn to pursue legal careers with the goal of bringing positive change to these and other statistics and to impact the criminal justice system on a neighborhood level. What can law students do to learn more about what restorative justice means and help to build a better criminal justice system professionally?
In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast host Fabiani Duarte invites guest host Amanda Joy Washington to sit down with organizer, law student, and activist Ruby-Beth Buitekant to discuss restorative justice and the Black Lives Matter movement. Ruby-Beth opens by sharing some of her early work experience with the Center for Court Innovation, through the Youth Organizing to Save Our Streets program, and discusses the transformative effects the program has had on her Crown Heights, Brooklyn neighborhood. She then explores the concept that humans should be free of state and interpersonal violence, an approach that is the basis for a lot of her work. The group then analyzes the use of disruption as a tactic in activism and ponder the statement “All Lives Matter” that has arisen in response to the Black Lives Matter movement. Ruby-Beth then wraps up the discussion with some information on how law students can get more involved in, and learn more about, restorative justice.
A big motivator for some individuals to attend law school is the ability to positively influence the communities from which they come. However, what assistance can a lawyer provide for their neighborhood if they feel the community is being unfairly targeted by law enforcement? How can members of the profession have a positive effect on incarceration rates through the application of restorative justice techniques?
In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, host Fabiani Duarte, along with guest host Andrew Scott and guest attorney Sarah Walton, take a look at mass incarceration in our criminal justice system and how restorative justice concepts could be applied. Sarah begins the interview by explaining her self-proclaimed moniker as a “free range attorney and abolitionist” and gives some insights into what those labels mean to her. She then talks about her work to help reduce the number of incarcerations through programs like pre-arrest diversion and some restorative justice tactics that law enforcement can implement to ensure the safety of all parties involved. The group then takes a moment to reflect on the disparate effects that The War on Drugs has had on low income communities and how new harm-reductive approaches to drug policing can improve public safety. Sarah then wraps up the discussion with an analysis of the stigma citizens returning from incarceration face in their communities and the things that law students can do, like attending court proceedings, to support members of their communities.
When it comes to a capital case, prosecuting or defending an individual whose life rests on the verdict can be a personal struggle. How does a lawyer cope with the loss of a client and what restorative justice options can they seek in lieu of the death penalty?
In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, host Fabiani Duarte and guest host Linsey Addington speak with Professor Sarah Gerwig Moore and Dr. Melissa Browning about the death penalty and ways restorative justice concepts can be used in capital cases. Sarah and Melissa begin by listing a few concepts and common misconceptions, such as the cost to the taxpayer for executing an inmate, that they believe should be considered when approaching the death penalty debate. Dr. Browning then goes into detail about how she learned about the Kelly Gissendaner case and what inspired her to get involved in seeking parole for Gissendaner. Professor Moore also gives some insight into her experience of being lead counsel seeking clemency for a death row inmate named Josh Bishop and explains the type of relationships lawyers can develop with these clients. The group then considers processes within the criminal justice system where restorative justice concepts can be applied and how these concepts, like seeking life without the possibility of parole, can reduce death row executions and promote communal well being.
Between 21% and 36% of practicing attorneys exhibit drinking behaviors that could be considered hazardous, harmful, or possibly alcohol dependent. 28% of licensed and employed attorneys are struggling with either mild, moderate, or severe depression, and 19% are battling with clinically significant levels of anxiety. How prevalent are mental health and substance misuse issues in the profession and what can young lawyers do to help reduce these numbers?
In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, host Fabiani Duarte speaks with Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation Legal Professionals Program Director Patrick Krill about the prevalence of substance misuse and other mental health concerns within the occupation. Patrick explains his motivation for encouraging the creation of this study, mainly a lack of relevant drug use and mental health data, and explores possible reasons as to why so little research of this kind has been done on attorneys. He also explains the tools he used, like the Alcohol Use Disorders Identification Test (AUDIT) and Depression Anxiety Stress Scales (Dass 21), to measure alcohol consumption and mental health concerns among the pool of 15,000 attorneys surveyed. The conversation then shifts to an analysis of the survey results which show that young attorneys within their first 10 years of practice have the highest rates of mental health issues and problematic drinking. Patrick expounds upon these statistics by revealing that 90% of the individuals surveyed identified alcohol as their drug of choice. He wraps up the interview with some suggestions on how drinking culture can be decoupled from the legal profession and provides tips for law students on identifying if they struggle with mental illness and substance misuse and resources for those seeking help.
Patrick Krill is director of the Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation Legal Professionals Program and a licensed attorney, board certified alcohol and drug counselor and graduate-level instructor in addiction counseling.
Marcia Clark is best known for being the lead prosecutor for theO.J. Simpson murder trial. The former Heisman Trophy Winner wasaccused and found not guilty of the June 1994 death of Nicole BrownSimpson and waiter Ronald Lyle Goldman in a trial that captivatedthe country. Thrust back into the spotlight by "The People vs. O.J.Simpson" miniseries, a new generation is now fascinated by Clark,the discrimination she faced during the trial, and the writingcareer that followed.
In this episode of the ABA Law StudentPodcast, hosts Fabiani Duarte andSandy Gallant-Jones sit down with Marcia Clark,most notably known for serving as the prosecutor for the trial ofO.J. Simpson, to discuss her new novel “Blood Defense.” Marciaprovides deeper insight into the motivation behind the creation of,and the personality differences between, her long running characterRachel Knight and her new protagonist, Samantha Brinkman. She alsospeaks briefly about her experience writing through theprosecutorial lens and the catalyst behind her recent shift towardswriting from the perspective of the defense. The focus of thediscussion then pivots toward an analysis of her experiences duringthe O.J. Simpson case and her prosecutorial experience. Marciareflects on the adversity she faced during the trial as shebalanced raising a family, fighting a custody battle, and thesexism she experienced in the courtroom and the office. She closesthe interview with advice on helpful skills that law students candevelop while in school, such as discipline and persistence, andhow those experiences can be applied to their work in theprofession.
20% of lawyers suffer from depression, more than double that of the general population. Beyond that, 60,000 law students suffer from depression by the end of their second year. What resources are available for lawyers who find themselves battling the rigors of the profession and the struggles of depression?
In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, hosts Fabiani Duarte and Madison Burke sit down with trial lawyer and founder of the website “Lawyers with Depression” Daniel Lukasik to discuss depression in the legal profession. Daniel opens the show by sharing some of his personal experiences battling depression, his path to treatment, and how that led to the creation of his website. He then takes a moment to analyze the number of law students and lawyers who suffer from depression and why those statistics are much higher than the average population. During this investigation Daniel also shares signs that law students can look for to determine if they are suffering from depression and some of the ways that depression might manifest itself in one’s life. The group then shifts focus to Daniel’s documentary “A Terrible Melancholy: Depression in the Legal Profession” and discuss resources supporters and those battling depression can seek to aid in treatment.
Daniel Lukasik is a trial lawyer with Maxwell Murphy LLP and the founder of the website “Lawyers with Depression.” He was also the executive producer for the documentary “A Terrible Melancholy: Depression in the Legal Profession.” Daniel graduated Magna Cum Laude from Buffalo State College and received his Juris Doctor from State University of New York at Buffalo Law School.
Many law students, upon graduating, find it very difficult to acquire employment in the legal profession straight out of school. Numerous law firms are unwilling to hire recent grads that have no previous work experience listed on their resumes. What should a recent graduate do to help increase their chances of finding a firm that is the right fit for them while providing the work experience necessary to land your first job?
In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast hosts Fabiani Duarte and Madison Burke sit down with Tort Trial & Insurance Practice Section Chair-Elect John Cartafalsa to discuss the summer associates program. John opens the episode with a little explanation of his educational history and peers back into his law school days to offer some advice to his younger law student self. He then chats specifically about his firm’s participation in hiring summer associates and what he looks for in a candidate, while Fabiani and Madison both inquire about the best tactics for law students to land these positions. The conversations wraps with some focused advice directed towards students seeking to find a law firm that is the perfect fit for them.
John Cartafalsa is the chair-elect of the Tort Trial & Insurance Practice Section for the American Bar Association. John is a managing attorney at Zurich Staff Legal Services and received his bachelor of science degree from American University School of International Service. He received his Juris Doctor from Touro College Jacob D. Fuchsberg Law Center.
The ABA Law Student Division serves to not only provide options for students to better engage with their peers but also to provide valuable leadership and career development opportunities. Individuals who wish to promote positive change within the profession will often seek to aid their peers by serving on the Law Student Division Board of Governors. In this ABA Law Student Podcast hosts Fabiani Duarte and Madison Burke sit down with members of the ABA Law Student Division to chat about their past year in review. The conversation opens with each board member explaining a bit about their law school background, the circuit they represent, and some of the changes their circuit went through over the year. The group then takes some time to discuss their favorite achievement that their respective law school was able to accomplish this year. The conversation wraps up with each governor providing tips and advice for the new board members that will be filling their positions once they leave.
Mathew C. Mecoli, Third Circuit
Drexel University Thomas R. Kline School of Law
Akemini Ruby Isang, Fourth Circuit:
University of South Carolina School of Law
Marcus Sandifer, Fifth Circuit
Emory University School of Law
Krystal Yalldo, Sixth Circuit
Western Michigan University
Thomas M. Cooley Law School
Mayra Salinas-Menjivar, Fourteenth Circuit
University of Nevada Las Vegas,
William S. Boyd School of Law
Kirk W. Kabala, Fifteenth Circuit
Arizona Summit Law School
Andrew Rhoden, M.S.
American University, Washington College of Law
Delegate to the ABA House of Delegates
The Law Student Division of the ABA provides many young lawyers with invaluable resources, benefits, and leadership opportunities. However, many students who are interested in pursuing a deeper level of engagement in the ABA aren’t sure how to continue their involvement as they enter the legal market. In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, host Fabiani Duarte chats with guest Bryan Rogers about the Young Lawyers Division and the Emerging Leaders Program that is helping law graduates seek significant leadership roles within the ABA.
Bryan Rogers is an associate attorney with the law firm Swanson, Martin & Bell, LLP. He also served as the Law Student Division representative to the ABA Board of Governors-Elect and as a 7th Circuit Governor. Bryan then moved on to be the Law Student Division representative member of the ABA Board of Governors. He also was a member of the inaugural class of the ABA Young Lawyers Division Emerging Leaders program. Bryan graduated from Valparaiso University School of Law (J.D., magna cum laude, 2013) and was the recipient of the ABA Law Student Division’s Golden Key Award.
Have you ever wondered how many lawyers continue to practice after acquiring their Juris Doctor Degree? Perhaps you’ve pondered how your legal knowledge can be applied to different types of public work or social activism. In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, host Fabiani Duarte takes an in-depth look at the American Bar Foundation research attempting to answer these questions with its director, Ajay K. Mehrotra.
Ajay K. Mehrotra is the executive director of the American Bar Foundation. He also is an adjunct professor of history at Indiana University and served as the school’s associate dean for research. Ajay is the author of “Making the Modern American Fiscal State: Law, Politics and the Rise of Progressive Taxation, 1877-1929” (Cambridge University Press, 2013).
One of the most demanding endeavors that any recent law grad will face is studying for and passing the bar exam. However, upon entering the legal market, many graduates aren’t aware of the challenges associated with transferring their bar exam scores between jurisdictions. In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, host Fabiani Duarte and guest Christopher Jennison, the Board of Governors representative to the Law Student Division, discuss their year-long fight to provide law students with more bar exam portability by encouraging the ABA House of Delegates to adopt Resolution 109.
Christopher Jennison is the Board of Governors representative to the Law Student Division and sits on the ABA Board of Governors. He graduated from Syracuse University in 2012 with dual majors in public relations from Newhouse and policy studies from Maxwell. He also graduated with a master’s degree in public administration from the University of Pennsylvania in 2014. Christopher has been the law student liaison to the Standing Committee on Continuing Legal Education and was also the recipient of the Law Student Division’s Gold Key Award.
As the law becomes ever more complex and the legal market continues to shift and grow, entering the workforce can be incredibly intimidating to a current student or recent grad. Sifting through the options and finding the career path that is right for you can sometimes feel daunting for even the most well-prepared of students. In this installment of the ABA Law Student Podcast David Lat, founder and managing editor of Above the Law, joins hosts Fabiani Duarte and Madison Burke to discuss his path to success and provide tips that can help students shape their burgeoning careers.
David Lat is the founder and managing editor of Above the Law, a blog established in 2006 that provides news and commentary on the U.S. legal industry. Prior to this, he started Underneath Their Robes, a blog focused on the federal judiciary with pop culture magazine sensibilities. Before his career as a blogger, David attended Harvard College and Yale Law School. After school, he worked as a law clerk for Judge Diarmuid F. O'Scannlain of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, a litigation associate at Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz in New York, and a federal prosecutor in Newark, New Jersey. in 2014 David published his first book, Supreme Ambitions: A Novel, to outstanding acclaim.
If you are one of the 40 million Americans who funded their education with student loan debt, you may be asking yourself now what? The bad news: you probably can’t get out of it with bankruptcy. The good news: with over 1.3 trillion dollars locked up in American educational loans, the country has a vested interest to pave the way for repayment. So what does that mean for you? Tune in to find out.
On this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, hosts Fabiani Duarte and Madison Burke talk with Credible Labs founder and Slate contributor Stephen J. Dash. Together, they discuss first steps in the post-borrowing world of student loan debt.
Step One: Understand Your Situation
This means you should know how much you owe and to whom. In addition, you should budget out your total earnings and total expenses.
Step Two: Make a Plan
By investigating your options for repayment, you will be able to make an informed choice. Primary options like consolidation, pay-as-you-earn, and refinancing all have pros and cons. Understanding the benefits and pitfalls of each repayment program will empower you to make the right choice for your situation.
Step Three: Stick to the Plan
Some repayment plans allow you to make future changes. Once you decide on a repayment plan, do your best to stick with it. If your financial situation changes, communicate with your servicer to see what, if any, options are available.
Student Loan Issues Discussed In This Episode: